I’m proposing one last major rule change for the near term. Some small future tweaks will still be required, but the sport is almost where it needs to be to take its place as the #1 striking ruleset globally.
One of my major goals is to be able to explain the Karate Combat rules to fighters and fans in one short sentence. For instance, every strike in MMA is allowed, but no submissions and no holding. The introduction of elbows completes this.
Further, in the current ruleset, we often see fighters wrapped up on the pit walls. Fighters have very little space to punch with effectiveness. With elbows, finishes on the walls will increase, and fighters will have yet another incentive to stay centered in the pit.
Arguments for and against the proposed rule change can be viewed here. For the time being, elbow strikes would not be introduced to the Influencer ruleset for IFC.
Arguments & Misconceptions:
This will further Karate Combat’s decline away from Karate: Empi Waza (elbow technique) are a core part of Karate. While some Dojos only train in Kata there are rulesets such as Kyokushin, Enshin, Ashihara, Kudo, Yoshikai, Goju-ryu, Uechi-Ryu, etc that allow it in Competition already. Most don’t allow it to the face but those amateur rulesets there’s strong precedent for a ruleset that allows a strike only to the body in it’s amateur ruleset to then allow it in its Professional Ruleset. Karate Combat does this itself currently with Hiza-Geri (Knee Strikes).
This will evolve Karate Combat to be the Ultimate Striking Ruleset: Right now Muay Thai is considered the ultimate striking ruleset but quite frankly the ruleset is actually quite limiting. Karate Combat is far more permissive in its grappling and focuses on some of the most street effective strikes to a grounded opponent while not getting tied down to prolonged grappling. Muay Thai doesn’t allow for any type of ground and pound. The only thing Karate Combat is missing is to introduce this traditional aspect of Karate into the ruleset.
Why not legalize eye pokes next: Eye Pokes are a technique that are banned because they are far too dangerous to the individual. While this is a Combat Sport it is still a sport and eye pokes can permanently damage the opponents eye and render them blind if enough damage is rendered to it.
Rule Proposal:
Changing Section 14 Fouls line item A) of the ruleset from “Striking with the elbow or head” to “headbutt strikes”
Should Karate Combat allow all Elbow Strikes (as allowed by the presiding commission) in the Pit? Vote YES or NO below.
I’m personally in favor of the change. I know this is something that President Asim has wanted to do for a long time, and I trust his judgment on the ruleset fully.
Leadership’s goal is to develop Karate Combat into the world’s leading striking ruleset and league. To accomplish that it probably doesn’t make sense to exclude one of the key striking tools.
Further, tying up on the pit walls is a major problem. If this can help, it’s a big bonus.
I appreciate this proposal coming from the leadership of Karate Combat.
My primary concern:
It would cause too much chaos when stability of the ruleset is necessary in develop of Karate Combat’s specific meta and skill set. Being that this proposal is from people who are so closely involved I think that that is a strong rebuttle from my primary concern.
A smaller concern of mine:
I think it’s reasonable that adding elbow strikes could make procurement of new talent more challenging. Most gym’s neglect training elbow strikes in comparison to all other techniques in Karate Combat. Has this kind of thing been taken into consideration?
Whilst I understand it will bring a new element to the striking ruleset I do believe it will only provide significant advantage to the Nak Muays on the roster, who are already doing extremely well in terms of results. My primary concern is that elbows are damaging enough to a fighter when standing as you can achieve good torque on the motion. If you factor in the pit wall which isnt in any other striking league, a standing fighter can also drop their entire bodyweight into it as well as achieve torque which is unlikely to occur on a mat or in the octagon. I have concerns about just how devastating this could be to a fighter receiving a dropped elbow against the pit wall.
Not only are elbows traditional, but they will allow for more aggressive action and better finishes, particularly against the pit wall and on downed opponents. This will be an excellent change to the rule set.
It would be great if we could get some opinions on this from some KC fighters.
EDIT:
Ok I watched the video. Two opinions is better than none, but some more would be good. Preferably more nuanced arguments than Jenkins’ “I like throwing elbows”. Lol
Now I understand my original post I talked about eye pokes, I wish I would’ve used headbutts instead, It’s a more realistic Option. Everybody thinks elbows are so “badass” But nine out of 10 times they just result in cuts. Stopping a fight because of cut is ridiculous And weak.
If you think “Nak Muays” are better at elbows, then I think that is all the more reason to put them in competition and force karatekas to develop their karate for real combat situations. Limiting elbows because of the perception Muay Thai fights may do better isn’t a good argument, imo.
Regarding elbows against the pit:
I think any difference is negligible. No one has done a flying elbow drop and I doubt the pit wall will significantly increase any force generation.
I got in the pit prior to KC48 and tested the elbow drop against it ( I have have 2 decades KB and Muay Thai experience) it generated significantly more power than a standing elbow and even without that its fairly basic physics
You can kick a person against the pit wall in the face with no restriction. I remember one time seeing someone try a Rolling Thunder kick in KC!
We have not seen anyone run up the wall and soccer kick an opponent - but I see nothing in the rules against it.
I think most elbows are thrown in the clinch or from a short distance - very few are flying elbows. Even less are unchallenged, elbow drops. A fighter has to be completely incapacitated to pull off such a move. And, even then, that move is no more devasting than a flying knee or rolling thunder to same opponent.
Honestly, now I’m kinda excited to see someone try a Pro-Wrestling elbow drop - lol.
I agree with this but according to my research approx 2% of fights end in doctor stoppage and we can safely assume only .5%-1.5% of those are from elbows. 1/100 fights ending because of a cut doesn’t seem like too big of a negative compared to the positives.
That 1.5% isn’t that big of a chance until it happens in a big fight. Title fight Diaz vs Masvidal comes to mind, everyone watching was mad as h#ll. Keep in mind, as you said before, there is no grappling in KC. Therefore, the chances of cuts gets dramatically increased in our purely striking league.
That was an amazing fight, but there are many things to note. 1) Diaz was only cut after 3 rounds of a 1 sided a$$ kicking by Masvidal . 2) Diaz is known to have a very bad case of scar tissue and is known to cut very easily even from punches. 3) That was a great example of a significant fight that ended by cut, but it was 1/2 a decade ago. Tbh I don’t think I could name 3 or even 4 main event fights that have ended by elbow cut in the last 10 years. It just goes to show how rare it actually happens and the 1 example we can think of was a violent destruction of a fighter who is known to be cut very often by a variety of strikes.
A flying elbow drop from a stand-up position as well as a soccer kick to the head sound like recipes for guaranteed bad endings !
Not a good idea from the receiving end and a surefire way to a concussion or worse. Not worth it for the health hazards.
Hello sir, I want to apologize for not being very active with my replies. I’ve noticed your comments and thoughts over the course of this evolution of KC and I just want to take the time to say thank you. Everything you say is very well thought out and I appreciate you contributing to the growth of the martial arts!
Although I feel that elbows will continue to progress the sport and simplify our rule set, I really respect you sharing your point of view!
Hey I train Muay Thai and I am for adding elbows, it would complete the striking arsenal of the sport and help it thrive! The hard thing is many people get elbows wrong. When you throw an elbow it’s all in the arms, Elbow strikes are primarily focused on delivering quick, targeted blows rather than relying heavily on the entire body for power generation. Unlike punches or kicks that often engage multiple muscle groups and require full-body mechanics, elbows allow fighters to execute rapid movements with minimal wind-up. when you put your body into it; it leaves your body into a very vulnerable position that can lead to getting knocked out yourself. Elbows when they are used and regulated right .It is a great tool for an any karateka’s arsenal and would be great in KC.
I agree, getting cut to the point of ending a fight does not happen very often but elbows are deigned to cut. MMA is a grappling dominated sport so the opportunity to cut is far less than in KC. Also, a cut in round 1 should have no effect on the score of round 2 and 3. yet the sight of blood does effect judges. Far more often a small minor cut steals rounds that an elbow wasn’t even apart of because of the look of blood. Strickland vs DDP is a good example of a title being stripped of a deserving winner because of the sight of blood swaying judges
. 2) Diaz is known to have a very bad case of scar tissue and is known to cut very easily even from punches. 3) That was a great example of a significant fight that ended by cut, but it was 1/2 a decade ago. Tbh I don’t think I could name 3 or even 4 main event fights that have ended by elbow cut in the last 10 years. It just goes to show how rare it actually happens and the 1 example we can think of was a violent destruction of a fighter who is known to be cut very often by a variety of strikes.
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